Matt Brown: 0:07

Hello friends, and welcome to the Rooted and Grounded podcast. It's chilly, Chilly.

Wayne Miller: 0:12

Not for me, buddy oh you're good, I'm good.

Matt Miller: 0:14

Look here, got the fancy vest on Pockets.

Wayne Miller: 0:17

Look here, boys, keep those hands warm.

Matt Brown: 0:21

Keep those paws warm, looks more like a banker than a preacher.

Wayne Miller: 0:25

You going to make a deposit. I'll pass we those paws warm. Looks more like a banker than a preacher. You going to make a deposit?

Matt Brown: 0:29

I'll pass, we'll take it.

Wayne Miller: 0:31

Make sure it'll be in good hands. It'll be in good hands, good hands, don't worry about it.

Matt Brown: 0:34

All right. So, guys, question to get us started today. What are you afraid of? Who wants to start that one? We're not talking about wives right talk about whatever you want okay well, I'll just leave that.

Wayne Miller: 0:49

I would advise you. Yeah, somewhere else. Yeah, we'll move on from that, um right I would say snakes come on, that's what I was gonna say something different.

Matt Miller: 0:59

Um, I tell you I'm not scared of them, but the skimmer in my pole. I tell you I'm not scared of them, but the skimmer in my pole. I tell you, what does scare me is when I think the frog is dead and it's not.

Wayne Miller: 1:14

And then the way it goes, I'm like whoa, hey, yeah, that gets me. Yeah, I am scared of snake, but you know there's only two kinds I'm scared of really Dead and alive. That's the only two, True, Anything in the same category. I could go with that. How about you?

Matt Brown: 1:31

I would go with mice. I get real manly, real quick when there's a mice around. Yeah, yeah.

Wayne Miller: 1:42

So you holler for your wife.

Matt Brown: 1:44

It's the startle factor.

Wayne Miller: 1:45

Oh, I know it's the startle fact. Like I know they're little, I know they're not gonna do anything. That's the thing.

Matt Brown: 1:48

It's that uh, I agree, you see one and like we live in the country so, like the cats, will bring it up on the porch or like you'll see one like in the garage. I'm just like time to move time to move.

Wayne Miller: 2:01

holler for the wife Moving on, all right.

Matt Brown: 2:04

So I ask you this question to lead into this, and that is, I think, one of the earliest fears that people develop is the fear of darkness. And so whenever there is the absence of light, there's uncertainty, there's fear, there's kind of that endless supply of what-if scenarios, and there's something about darkness that makes us crave light.

Matt Brown: 2:27

But the other way around light does not make us crave darkness. And so today we're going to look at some of the spiritual reasons why we have a desire for light, as Jesus reveals himself to be the light of the world. And so, if you are following along, we are going to be in John, chapter 8, and let's read verse 12 to get started. Again, Jesus spoke to them saying I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. So, Wayne, we got the sun and the moon, we've got fire, we've got electricity, we've got a lot of sources of light. And so what does Jesus mean when he says that he is the light of the world?

Wayne Miller: 3:08

Well, you know, you're right, we do have the sun and the moon, you know, fire, electricity, whatever. But I want to say none of them shine as brightly as Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

Matt Miller: 3:20

What was that? Revelation 22. The lamb is the light.

Wayne Miller: 3:24

Yeah, yeah, he is the light. Yeah, yeah, he is the light. So when you think about what does it mean, what does it mean? Jesus is the light of the world, it means he's the light of the world.

Matt Brown: 3:33

Yeah, I mean in all seriousness, that's right, isn't that deep?

Wayne Miller: 3:37

Isn't that deep Mm-hmm? Because, in reality, when you think about it, there is no other source of true light. He's it. And I think when he reads in John 8, 12, he's real clear about it. He says I am the light of the world. And, guys, what that means to me is it just means there's no other light other than him, I mean. But it also tells me this that everyone, everyone, is in need of that light, in need of Jesus. In other words, guys, there's no other alternative. Okay, the sun and the moon, you know, as bright as they are, they can't save you. Okay, their evidences are the creator, but they're not going to create salvation for you.

Wayne Miller: 4:23

And so, when I think about Jesus as light of the world, it's just the very fact. There's two or three things that the fact that there's none other beside him. He is the great I am, and the fact that all of us, because of the darkness of sin, we need the light of the world. Because, when you look into scriptures, light is a symbol of good, light is a symbol of good, light is a symbol of righteousness, while darkness is always associated with evil. And it's because all of us have a problem of sin, all have fallen short. All have committed sin. That means every individual is in need of the light of the world.

Wayne Miller: 5:05

And I just find it interesting that John 8, 12, that statement you just read Jesus said I'm the light of the world. It's immediately following a very dark discussion, because in verses 1 through 11, it is about the woman that was found and they brought her there. That was supposedly found in adultery In the darkness of her life. Jesus says I'm the light of the world. And when I say that, guys, it's just the fact that he gives hope to everyone, because he is the only source of true light.

Matt Miller: 5:38

It's like go to the light or look to the light or you know there's always that emphasis or that you know teaching to go to this light. So you think about, like Wayne was saying, that concept of you know light being good and darkness being evil. I mean, just think about what he's doing. He's elevating himself to say that I'm that, I'm that light, I'm that example. And verse 11, I mean he says uh, neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more. It's like what, like who's making that statement?

Wayne Miller: 6:17

but you know, in john 1, when the book opens, we know we talked about our last episode, about in the beginning was a word, etc. But we didn't look at verse 4. For in him was life and the life was the light. That's right.

Matt Miller: 6:32

And the light shines in the darkness.

Wayne Miller: 6:34

That's exactly right, and they don't understand it, yeah.

Matt Brown: 6:37

It's like thinking back to the last episode. Jesus describes himself with something physical to describe something spiritual and eternal.

Matt Miller: 6:44

Exactly right. A's always exactly right. A great teacher man.

Matt Brown: 6:47

So, matt, obviously, the contrast between light and darkness is made from the very first page of the Bible and throughout the rest of the book, and so Jesus makes this pointed statement that those who follow him will not walk in darkness. Now, what does walking in darkness look like, and why is that such a bad way to live?

Matt Miller: 7:04

What does walking in darkness look like, and why is that such a bad way to live? Well, I think, if you just go back to like John three and you think about this idea of walking in darkness, he says in verse 18, he who believes in him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already because he's not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God. And this is the condemnation that the light has come into the world and men love darkness rather than light.

Matt Miller: 7:35

Because their deeds were evil. I went to my buddies this has been years ago and he said, hey, I want to grill out and maybe we'll have fire later on. And I said OK. And he said, let, I want to grill out and maybe we'll have a fire later on. And I said okay. And he said let's do it at night Now I'm not going to say this guy's name, that way he won't feel bad, but we've joked about it for years. And I said he said we got to make sure it's all the way dark though, and I'm like, okay, so we got over there. Well, we ended up staying longer and I ended up staying the night.

Matt Miller: 8:09

Well, I didn't realize until the morning was the reason why he wanted us to do it in the dark was his yard was an absolute disaster. I mean, he had all kinds of stuff in that yard and he didn't want everybody to see it, and so he knew that he could have it in the dark, and he didn't want everybody to see it, and so he knew that he could have it in the dark and he could put them in a certain area and angle them a certain way and nobody would even know. But this is exactly what Jesus is talking about. People would rather be in the dark, because what they feel like or think is that they can cover or hide a certain way of living and nobody will see it. And I think that you know.

Matt Miller: 8:50

The statement that really stands out to me is is uh, when in verse 19, men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. Darkness and that way of living it's evil living. It's the contrast between morning, day and night and dark. I mean, you think about just when the sun comes up you can see all the stuff. But the reason why I want it to stay dark is because I don't want you to know what I'm doing, because I'm embarrassed.

Wayne Miller: 9:26

I can identify with you, buddy. I look better in the dark. It's like, you know, over our vanities. You know the lights, okay, for some reason. Obviously we weren't thinking We've got a two light here, two light in the middle and two light over the other vanity. I look in that mirror under that vanity I'm going so you, I took out one of the bulbs. It looks better.

Wayne Miller: 9:50

It looks a whole lot better Now you know, probably take the other one out too, but at least it's not shining as brightly as it once did that's right.

Matt Brown: 9:57

Get Hardison to turn out some of these lights for us.

Wayne Miller: 10:00

Or at least on this side. Yeah, because if we could do that, I'd still get glare. Yeah, okay.

Matt Brown: 10:06

Yeah, Touche so on that note throughout the rest of this section, jesus and the Pharisees. They get into both a legal and a spiritual discussion about if Jesus is really who he claims to be. And in response to these questions, Jesus continually ties himself back to God. And so let's look at John 8, verse 17. It says in your law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself and the father who sent me bears witness about me. And then, skipping down to verse 28. So Jesus said to them when you have lifted up the son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him. So, matt, why is it so important that Jesus establishes that he alone is not the source of light, but that he is the light sent from God?

Matt Miller: 11:15

You know the thing about it is, you know he goes on to say that you know you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. When you abide in my words, you know you're going to be something different and I think that light I mean it's the idea of what he teaches in the Sermon on the Mount You're a city that's set on a hill. You're a light that shines on a lampstand. When you walk by a house and it's nighttime and that house has that uh, candle shining in that window, you can see that like. So he's saying, you're gonna see a difference in who I am and I'm gonna be that first fruit in that example of what a resurrected person looks like because of my faithfulness to god. But you get to be the same thing as well, because, I mean, you think about this idea in verse 29, he who sent me is with me. The father has not left me alone, for I always do those things which please him, like sometimes the things that he was asked to do were not easy. You know, like we see it in the garden Let this cup pass, but not my will, yours be done. And I think that when we think about him talking about being the light.

Matt Miller: 12:43

It's very different than other lights because there is good people and there are people that have done some really good things, but Jesus is the light he is. He is the example like, and I think he's he's. He's putting himself up, not in a very disrespectful way, he's doing it because that's who I am. I mean, isn't that what paul said? He didn't consider it, robert, be equal with god, but what did? Became a real light and became like a bond servant. He humbled himself. That's incredible. Like that's what light does. Light becomes humble, light becomes, you know, extra mile. Light becomes very different and even in this moment he's, he's talking it through and you know we talked about this on the last episode as well. They don't get it until later, but I think that's why John is so excited in 1 John, because he realizes who that light truly was man.

Matt Miller: 13:48

I just to me verse 32, you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free is just, you know, something that I always hold on to, because when I recognize good versus Jesus, what I think is good is in no comparison to what really is good, and that's the true light yeah, because you're comparing good to perfect exactly, yes.

Matt Brown: 14:19

So, wayne, if jesus is the light that is sent from god, how do we become the light that shines today?

Wayne Miller: 14:25

well, you know p robably the first thing comes my mind mad on, that is hebrew that he is the author of salvation to all those that do something obey him all those who follow him, and you know one of the great.

Wayne Miller: 14:37

We don't have time in this time, but Ephesians 4 and 5 to me is just a great, quick few passages to help us to see what it is for us to be able to walk and to live as light. Because you look at Ephesians 4, he says I beg you to walk in the manner worthy of the calling with which you've been called. And then he tells them what that looks like. He didn't just say hey, I want you to walk like Christ. He says let me give you some examples of that Humility, gentleness, patience, showing tolerance, being diligent. In other words, it makes a difference from people. When you walk in darkness, you stumble, you step on things that you normally wouldn't. You stump your toe, you trip because of darkness, but when you can turn that light on it's so then the pathway is so clear and it's so obvious, and if there is something there, you can see it, so you don't step on it. So when we as children of god owe those who obey him, then you look at ephesians 4. He says I beg you to do this. Then I would encourage our listeners and those who are viewing to look at verses 17 and following, because it's talking about what you've put off. As people of darkness, you put off this lifestyle, you put off this attitude. You don't walk any longer that way, but you put on. I love verse 24, you put on a new self. And notice that new self. It's in the likeness of God, created in righteousness and created in holiness of the truth, john.

Wayne Miller: 16:12

You said about John eight 32, the truth will do something powerful, it'll set you free. And so he says that you created in righteousness and holiness of truth. And then look at chapter five, verse one be imitators of God and notice, walk in love. Then look at verse eight you were formerly before you obeyed Christ. You were formerly darkness, but now you are the light of the world. Walk, live, conduct your life as children of light.

Wayne Miller: 16:47

And you know, when I think about that, guys, it's just like we talked about at the beginning. You said you know we have the sun and the moon and all. I just look at us as children of God, that we're just reflectors. That's what we are to do. I mean you referenced it a few minutes ago, matt, about a light that's in a little candle in a room at night. It just gives light to all, but then to those who are outside. It doesn't just light up those. You can see it from a distance and I see that as the Christian, that our lights are to be shining, because you know why. We're not the light guys, we represent the light.

Matt Miller: 17:22

Well, he says right there, for you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. That's right. That's the source. You are light in the Lord, so walk as children of light.

Wayne Miller: 17:32

We're the moons. That's right. We're shining the sun, and the sun not the S-U-N, but we're shining the S-O-N, we're shining the sun of God, the living Christ, and so that's just kind of what I see, that when we look at it. There's so many passages we could talk about this, but I don't know any that just really challenges, like the changed heart, the changed life, the obedient spirit of Ephesians 4 and 5. It's just powerful to me Well and I think really especially throughout John. But here.

Matt Brown: 18:12

Jesus is not doing anything on his own and he's not claiming to be the only source of light. He's doing it because of the Father. And, matt, I know last episode you talked about the vine, and Jesus does not exist as the vine by himself, but there is the vine dresser, and so everything that Jesus does is tied back to the Father, and I think that's why it's so important that we remember both aspects of these two here, because we're doing things through Christ to please and be like the Father. And so, as we think about this statement in greater detail, and especially from that standpoint of identity, like we want to do each week, what is Jesus revealing about himself when he says that he is the light of the world?

Matt Miller: 18:53

Well, I think that, like just going back to Ephesians 5, 12, it says, or really verse 11, have no fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. You think about darkness and light and you think about the identity of jesus. He exposes the wrong thing to do. Don't do that, don't be a part of that, and look at what he says, paul says, for it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. I mean, jesus is the one who says, of course you think about romans, chapter 5, and you think about the law and the reason why the law came in, and it was to to elevate that sin, the wrong thing. But you remember where it says where the sin abounded, grace abounded much more, I think. There, I think, the beauty of the light is not only will I show you what that sin is, I'll eliminate that sin. If you will do this, you will not have sin in your life. You will live a perfect life if you just follow what I say. And oh, by the way, when you do mess up my blood, if you ask for forgiveness will cleanse you and put you back in the perfect state.

Matt Miller: 20:03

But I think verse 13 is the one man. But all things that are exposed are made manifest by what? By the light. For whatever makes manifest is light, what is happening. And no wonder he says awake, you who sleep. You better arise from the dead and guess what Christ is going to give you light Like. If you want hope in your life, if you want to be able to walk the way that you're supposed to walk, if you think you're walking the way that you're supposed to walk and you ain't got Jesus, you ain't seen something yet. You ain't seen light. And I think that he is just trying to elevate people to say come to me and.

Matt Miller: 20:48

I'll show you something you ain't never seen before.

Matt Brown: 20:52

And that makes me think a lot about uh Matthew, and talks about the blind leading the blind, and for how many people in the world think they have life figured out? They're doing things the right way and try to get people to follow them, even at times from the best of intentions, but they're in darkness.

Wayne Miller: 21:08

That's right.

Matt Brown: 21:09

And we can try to to find meaning and fulfillment in, in maybe these practices or these teachings, but you're not going to and there's only one place you're going to find it and that's in the light.

Wayne Miller: 21:19

That's right and that's to me is one of the identities here that I see that he is our hope, um and, and you know, like last episode we talked about jesus being bread of life, and one of those things that you know stood out about jesus in that statement is the fact that he is the one sent down from his deity. The one thing that stands out to me about him being the light of the world is just the Savior. You know, the woman at the well said you know, when those people came from the city, they said this is the Savior of the world because he is the light and we all need it, because we all have the problem with darkness light and we all need it because we all have the problem with darkness.

Matt Miller: 21:58

You know, I'd use that example, my friend, and when the light came, it exposed his yard. The light did well. In this verse it says but all things that are exposed, what are exposed, the bad things, are made manifest. You can see them because of the light. And he says for whatever makes manifest is light. It's no coincidence that Jesus uses that.

Wayne Miller: 22:28

And even when.

Matt Miller: 22:28

John 1, 5, where he says the light is coming to the world and it shines in the darkness, and the darkness can't comprehend it. Why? Because they don't want to be exposed. But if I'm willing to be exposed by the light, it changes who I am. It's a game changer, I mean he is. What he is teaching is is no doubt there's so much depth, but it is really. I mean it's so what? I don't even I can't remember this saying I'm about to just mess mean it's so. I can't remember this saying I'm about to just mess it up.

Matt Miller: 22:57

The scriptures are so easy to wade in, but it's so deep you could drown.

Wayne Miller: 23:03

I don't know how that that's close.

Matt Miller: 23:07

But you know, it's so easy that you can just get it so quick, but then it's so deep because there's so much more to it. But Jesus is saying you awake those who sleep. Paul says arise from the dead and guess what? Jesus will give you life. Man, give yourself up and I'll give you something different.

Wayne Miller: 23:26

Yeah, I love that, John 321. He who practices truth comes to the light so that his deeds may be manifested, has been wrought in God. I mean, you know, if I'd have been your buddy, y'all wouldn't have been there at daylight I'd have kicked y'all out.

Matt Miller: 23:42

I walked out and said man dude what happened?

Matt Brown: 23:44

He's like that's why I had the party at night, dude, and I'm like well okay.

Wayne Miller: 23:48

I get you, if I'd have known this, I'd have on this. I left them on. But just what is in darkness? Yeah, sometimes people just want to stay there because the light shows. Well, there was a confidence about him.

Matt Miller: 24:04

This is not in disrespect. No, he had a confidence. You could tell that night, because nobody saw all that stuff. I mean, he was just moving around. He had them in a certain area where it was nice and then as soon as the darkness ended and the light came, I could tell on his face. So you about to leave or what you doing.

Wayne Miller: 24:25

I'm like dude what in the world?

Matt Miller: 24:27

You know, it's like this is such a perfect example.

Matt Brown: 24:32

Yeah, and I think, matt, building off what you were talking about a minute ago, I see Jesus's identity as a guide in his teaching, and that's what the light does it guides us to see Christ, to see the Father, and, in turn, become light to show others the way. All right, so let's make it real. Matt, you want to start us off this time.

Matt Miller: 24:50

Man Already. Ephesians 5, verse 15. See, then, that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time because the days are evil. I gotta recognize that now is the time and a light's been provided, so why don't I walk in it? Um, I think that that, for me, I'm with Wayne. Ephesians 4 and 5, just talk so much about just what Jesus is calling himself, and that's light.

Wayne Miller: 25:24

I would just say the Christian faith, the obedient life, is wrapped up in one person, and that person is Jesus, who is the light of the world. You take him out of the equation, guys. We don't have anything. We're all being darkness.

Matt Brown: 25:38

And I would say for mine different situations need different types of light. So like whenever my son wakes up during the night, I don't want to turn the overhead lights on, I want the little nightlight in the hallway or like if I need to do something in the kitchen or play or clean or whatever. I don't want a nightlight. I want the big lights on or if you go outside, you may want a flashlight, but if you're driving a car at night, the flashlight's not going to cut it. Different situations need different types of light.

Matt Brown: 26:06

And it's the same way as we work with others in the spiritual walk. And I think about what Jude says, where he says have mercy on those who doubt. Save others by snatching them out of the fire to others. Show mercy, hating even the garment stained by sin. Like there's times, we need to be a nightlight.

Wayne Miller: 26:23

There are times we need to be a massive spotlight.

Matt Brown: 26:27

There's times we need to be the gentle lamp, and all light is good, but we need the right light in the right situation. Amen. Good job, brother so maybe that can be our thought for this week is be the light and be the right light, and we do that in Christ. So thank you, as always, for listening. I hope you have a great week. We'll do it again soon.

Wayne Miller: 26:48

See you Out of here, here you.